Legislature(2009 - 2010)CAPITOL 106
04/08/2010 08:00 AM House STATE AFFAIRS
| Audio | Topic |
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| Start | |
| SB244 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| += | SB 244 | TELECONFERENCED | |
SB 244-GOVERNOR'S DUTY STATION/TRAVEL ALLOWANCES
8:08:10 AM
CHAIR LYNN announced that the only order of business was SENATE
BILL NO. 244, "An Act providing that, during the governor's term
of office, the duty station of the governor is Juneau, and
prohibiting payment of certain travel allowances for use of the
governor's personal residence."
The committee took an at-ease from 8:08:25 AM to 8:13:39 AM.
8:14:13 AM
DARWIN PETERSON, Staff, Senator Bert Stedman, Alaska State
Legislature, presented SB 244 on behalf of Senator Stedman,
sponsor. He stated that the proposed bill would codify in
statute the administrative requirement that Juneau is officially
considered the governor's duty station. Currently there are no
statutory provisions requiring the governor to reside in the
capital city and occupy the governor's mansion during his/her
term of office. He related that SB 244 would not prohibit the
governor from maintaining a personal residence anywhere else in
Alaska; however, the governor would be subject to state
personnel laws as they apply to the calculation and payment of
travel allowances. If passed, the legislation would not affect
the current governor, but would affect all future governors.
8:15:38 AM
KEVIN BROOKS, Deputy Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner,
Department of Administration, in response to Chair Lynn, said
the proposed legislation would not change the pay allowance of
the governor. He described the bill as "a formal statement of
duty station," noting that "current practice is consistent with
how the bill is constructed." He related that every state
employee in the executive branch has a formal duty station, with
the exception of the governor. The proposed bill would treat
the position of governor like all other positions in the
executive branch. In response to a question from Chair Lynn, he
said he does not know why the governor has been excluded thus
far.
8:18:04 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO ascertained that Mr. Brooks, whose duty
station is Juneau, lives in Juneau. He pointed out that Mr.
Brooks could, if he wanted, live in Anchorage and fly to Juneau
every day for work. He asked Mr. Brooks if he distinguishes as
"fairly special" a situation in which someone owns a house in a
community other than Juneau and is elected and given a house in
Juneau.
MR. BROOKS responded, "I would agree, that's fairly unique, as
it relates to other employees in the executive branch."
CHAIR LYNN stated his assumption that the governor has use of
the governor's mansion rent-free.
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO and MR. BROOKS confirmed that is correct.
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO said the governor is elected for a finite
amount of time - there is a term limit of eight years. He
asked, "In your opinion, is this distinction for the governor so
different from other employees that we should not declare the
governor's duty station?"
8:20:11 AM
MR. BROOKS offered his perspective that the proposed legislation
would provide some guidance and clarity. He said it is not
uncommon for an individual to take a job in one part of the
state and have a home in another part. He relayed that there is
a state administrative manual used by all state agencies, which
outlines rules regarding travel. The state makes a distinction
between lodging expense and meal allowance. Currently the state
gives $60 a day for meal allowance, while lodging expense is
only given as a reimbursement for expenditure. Mr. Brooks
offered an example in which a state employee has a home in
Anchorage and a duty station in Juneau. If that employee flies
to Anchorage on state business and stays in his/her home while
in Anchorage, he/she would not be given lodging allowance
reimbursement, because no money would have been spent by that
employee on lodging. Mr. Brooks stated that the proposed bill
is consistent with current policy. He said, "It makes some
clarification on a single position where it doesn't exist, and
it's how we treat 1,500 other executive branch employees."
8:22:52 AM
MR. BROOKS, in response to Chair Lynn, said there is publicized
debate about how a former governor was reimbursed for meal
allowance. In response to a follow-up question, he confirmed
that currently Juneau is not specified in statute as the
governor's duty station. He said if a governor had a home in
Anchorage, stayed at that home during a state-related business
trip in Anchorage, and bought groceries and cooked meals at that
home, he/she could be reimbursed at the $60-a-day amount if
he/she submitted a claim. Likewise, if the governor ate at a
restaurant while in Anchorage, he/she could be reimbursed. He
indicated that that reimbursement would not be available for
eating out at a restaurant in the duty station.
8:26:37 AM
MR. BROOKS, in response to Representative Gatto, confirmed that
under SB 244, a governor would still be allowed to travel for
state business from Juneau to a town in which he/she owned a
home, stay in that home during the business trip, and submit a
claim to be reimbursed $60 a day for food.
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO responded that it is not clear what change
would be effected by SB 244.
8:27:37 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON asked if there is an option of receiving
per diem or reimbursement in the executive branch.
MR. BROOKS answered there is not.
8:28:12 AM
MR. PETERSON, in response to Chair Lynn, clarified that the
intent of the proposed legislation is not to change policy, but
rather it is simply a statement of policy that Juneau, a capital
city, is the duty station of the governor. That statement would
be codified in statute, he said. In response to a follow-up
question from Chair Lynn, he explained that under SB 244, since
Juneau would be named in statute as the governor's duty station,
it may become an issue if a governor did not live in Juneau.
8:29:34 AM
MR. PETERSON, in response to Representative Gatto, read the
first sentence of the definition of duty station, which is in
the aforementioned Alaska Administrative Manual [excerpts
included in the committee packet], as follows:
The duty station of a traveler includes the city,
town, or village within 50 miles of where the traveler
spends the major portion of their working time, or the
place to which the traveler returns to duty on
completion of special assignments.
MR. PETERSON said the bill would not prevent the governor from
traveling. He stated, "It's just when the governor returns home
and the governor's living in Alaska, the capital ... city and
the governor's mansion is where the governor should reside."
CHAIR LYNN noted that Mr. Peterson said "should reside."
MR. PETERSON said yes. In response to Representative Gatto, he
said the bill specifies Juneau as the capital city; therefore,
if SB 244 was passed into law, statute would have to be amended
if the capital city ever was relocated.
CHAIR LYNN suggested the language be changed now to read
"capital" rather than "Juneau".
8:32:49 AM
MR. BROOKS, in response to Representative Seaton, explained that
without SB 244, a governor from Kotzebue, for example, could
decide that Kotzebue is his/her duty station, which would mean
every time that governor came to Juneau, he/she could stay in
the governor's mansion and eat the meals provided there and
submit a claim for those meals.
8:35:32 AM
REPRESENTATIVE PETERSEN recollected that in the past, there has
been controversy regarding the travel of the governor's
children. He noted that that issue is not addressed in SB 244,
and he questioned why.
MR. PETERSON responded that the sponsor intentionally did not
address that issue, because it is a much more complicated issue
that would probably require a separate piece of legislation.
REPRESENTATIVE PETERSEN offered a hypothetical situation in
which the governor's children do not come to Juneau with the
governor, in order to remain in their school and hometown
located in other than Juneau. He asked if under SB 244, with
the governor's duty station being Juneau, the governor's travel
back and forth from Juneau to see his/her children would be paid
by the state.
8:37:43 AM
MR. BROOKS responded that he cannot imagine that the governor's
trips to see his/her children would not also include business,
because the position of governor is held 365 days of the year;
therefore, he speculated that those trips may be paid for by the
state.
CHAIR LYNN remarked that legislators also represent the state
365 days of the year.
MR. BROOKS responded that is correct.
8:38:59 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG asked if anyone has raised the issue of
separation of power in relation to the proposed legislation.
MR. PETERSON answered yes. He said the issue was raised with
Legislative Legal and Research Services. He relayed that not
only is it within the purview of the Alaska State Legislature to
declare the governor's duty station, the legislature is the only
body in the state that can do so.
8:40:10 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG opined that if the state regularly
provides the governor with meals "here," and the governor does
not eat those meals, then it should be fair that the state pay
an equivalent cost "wherever the governor eats the meals."
MR. BROOKS responded that that would occur under SB 244. In
response to a follow-up question from Representative Gruenberg,
he offered his understanding that currently a governor who, for
example, lives in Wasilla and drives back and forth from Wasilla
to Anchorage would not get reimbursed for that travel expense,
and the proposed legislation "doesn't change that at all."
8:42:13 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG asked for confirmation that currently
the governor "would be entitled to the meal allowance," so [SB
244] would not change that either.
MR. BROOKS replied, "Currently a governor would be eligible for
that meal allowance." He clarified that the proposed
legislation does not change current practice, but "makes that
distinction between ... lodging costs versus meal allowance."
In response to a follow-up question, he specified that SB 244
would put "duty station into law."
8:42:50 AM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON offered his understanding that under SB
244, when a governor who has residence in another part of the
state comes to Juneau and is given meals, he/she would not be
allowed to claim meal allowance. He clarified that without the
proposed legislation, a governor could claim a meal allowance
when in Juneau if he/she declared someplace outside of Juneau as
his/her duty station. He offered his understanding that SB 244
would correct that, and he said he sees that as the proposed
bill's biggest impact.
MR. BROOKS responded, "What you just described is accurate."
8:44:28 AM
CHAIR LYNN recollected that a former governor had released the
cook staff at the governor's mansion. He asked who would have
paid for the food after that happened.
MR. BROOKS imparted, "The state would have still purchased the
food, just would not have been paying to have it prepared."
CHAIR LYNN asked for clarification regarding how that situation
would have been changed under SB 244. He asked, "Is it the cook
that's paid for or is it the food that's consumed that's paid
for?"
MR. BROOKS offered his understanding that it is an option for
the governor to have staff that will purchase groceries, prepare
meals, and clean up afterward. He then offered his
understanding that the aforementioned previous governor chose to
have the state reimburse the purchase of food and leave the
preparation to the governor's family.
CHAIR LYNN concluded, "But this bill wouldn't change any of that
at all."
MR. BROOKS confirmed that is correct.
8:46:35 AM
REPRESENTATIVE PETERSEN pointed out that there is an office in
Anchorage that is frequently used by the governor, and he asked
if the bill would make Juneau the duty station 365 days of the
year, even if the legislature was not currently in session.
MR. BROOKS replied, "It would be the duty station for purposes
of calculating travel - not necessarily where they worked or
spent time - because obviously the governor is going to spend
time throughout the state and ... outside of the state, as
well." In response to Chair Lynn, he stated that SB 244 would
not force the governor to live in Juneau.
8:47:43 AM
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON offered her understanding that the
proposed legislation would make accounting easier. Furthermore,
the bill would not allow a governor to get paid for the miles
he/she travels between home and work.
8:49:00 AM
MR. BROOKS said Representative Wilson is correct regarding
accounting. However, he said the issue of mileage is really not
addressed in the proposed legislation.
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON directed attention page 2, line 8,
Section 2(b)(2), which read as follows:
(2) the governor is not entitled to, and may
not claim as a travel allowance, a lodging allowance
when staying in the governor's personal residence
while in travel status away from the governor's
designated duty station.
MR. BROOKS said the key [term] in that bill language is "lodging
allowance".
CHAIR LYNN asked, "Was that ever claimed before - lodging
allowance?"
MR. BROOKS offered his understanding that the answer is no, but
said the claims are handled by the governor's administrative
office. He said, "To get a lodging allowance, you have to
submit an invoice."
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON said the language in the bill is not
clear. She suggested that a comma should be added after
"lodging allowance". She explained that that would clarify that
"we're talking about the lodging allowance."
MR. PETERSON said that would be a fine amendment that would
clarify the language.
8:51:20 AM
REPRESENTATIVE PETERSEN asked if, in the event a governor from
Juneau was elected and wanted to live in his/her own home rather
than in the governor's mansion, the state would provide food and
a cook.
8:51:52 AM
MR. BROOKS responded that the bill really does not address the
provision of a cook or other food preparers. He said the
governor in that hypothetical situation certainly would not be
given a lodging allowance.
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO asked, "What if they rented a house and had
rental receipts and stayed in their house? Would they get a
lodging allowance?"
MR. BROOKS said if that was in Juneau the governor would not get
a lodging allowance, because under SB 244, the governor would be
in his/her duty station. In response to Chair Lynn, he offered
his understanding that the same answer would be true currently,
without SB 244.
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO asked, "What if they went to the Goldbelt -
now they have a receipt. Can they submit that?"
MR. BROOKS replied, "If duty station is defined in Juneau that
would not be reimbursed."
8:53:24 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG stated his understanding that the
proposed legislation would make it clear that when a governor is
staying in his/her personal residence, anywhere in the state,
he/she would not be given a lodging allowance. Furthermore, if
the governor is in Juneau, he/she would not get a meal allowance
either, "because you had chosen to buy your meals outside and
not have them provided by the state."
MR. BROOKS said he believes that is accurate.
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG further stated his understanding that a
governor with a residence in Anchorage or Wasilla, for example,
who was working in those locations, could get a meal allowance.
MR. BROOKS responded that is correct.
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG said that seems fair. He said former
Governor Sarah Palin did not receive a mileage allowance,
because the state provided a car for her and the gasoline. He
opined that that is fair, as well. He said there are governors
in other states who have chosen not to live in the governor's
residence in order to save money for the state. He said a
governor might have to go to another part of the state to
conduct state business when the legislature is not in session,
and it is reasonable for the governor to stay in his/her own
residence.
8:56:31 AM
CHAIR LYNN, after ascertaining that there was no one else who
wished to testify, closed public testimony.
8:56:39 AM
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON moved to adopt Conceptual Amendment 1,
as follows:
Page 2, line 9, between "lodging allowance" and
"when":
Insert ","
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON explained that Conceptual Amendment 1
would provide clarification.
CHAIR LYNN asked if there was any objection. There being no
objection, Conceptual Amendment 1 was adopted.
8:57:14 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON moved to adopt Amendment 2, as follows:
Page 1, line 2:
Delete "Juneau"
Insert "the state capital"
CHAIR LYNN asked if there was any objection. There being none,
Amendment 2 was adopted.
8:57:47 AM
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON moved to adopt Amendment 3, as follows:
Page 2, line 6:
Delete "Juneau"
Insert "the state capital"
REPRESENTATIVES P. WILSON and SEATON objected.
8:58:12 AM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON asked Mr. Brooks if duty stations are
assigned by particular city. He asked if there is any
difference in the way the bill would be implemented if it read
"Juneau" or "the capital city".
MR. BROOKS explained that currently each employee's duty station
is designated as a specific city. He continued as follows:
But I think there's an understanding ..., from hearing
the discussion here, that if the capital is currently
Juneau, then that's the duty station - the actual city
we would use, and ... if it ever changed, then we
would adjust it accordingly.
8:59:08 AM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON removed his objection.
8:59:19 AM
MR. PETERSON said he does not think the bill sponsor would have
a problem with Amendment 3, because changing "Juneau" to "the
capital city" would still accomplish his intent.
8:59:38 AM
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON removed her objection.
CHAIR LYNN announced that there being no further objection,
Amendment 3 was adopted.
9:01:10 AM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON moved to report SB 244, as amended, out of
committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying
fiscal notes.
9:01:28 AM
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO objected. He expressed his concern that
the proposed legislation would have little real effect, but
would add constraints; therefore, he sees no benefit in passing
the bill.
9:01:54 AM
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Johnson, Gruenberg,
Petersen, Seaton, Wilson, and Lynn voted in favor of the motion
to report SB 244, as amended, out of committee with individual
recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes.
Representative Gatto voted against it. Therefore, HCS SB
244(STA) was reported out of the House State Affairs Standing
Committee by a vote of 6-1.
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